Still fighting the Vietnam War
For some reason, USA Today ("All the American Idol News That's Fit to Print") enlisted that leader of the 101st Fighting Keyboardists, Jonah Goldberg, to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the fall of Saigon.
When last we checked in on him, Jonah was being smacked around by Juan Cole. So it comes as no surprise that he has had the inspired insight that Iraq is nothing like Vietnam.
Well, except that both were entered into on the basis of false intelligence in response to an unlikely threat, and support for both was ginned up by claiming that it's all about bringing democracy to a benighted people -- at the point of a gun. But let's put those comparisons aside, okay?
And Lucianne's spawn does have a point when he writes
Indeed, the D.C. cocktail party circuit pundits did support the war in Vietnam initially because they knew that the press and Washington establishment knew what was best, as did their successors in 2001 and 2002. Both now as then, the press were complicit in cheerleading as war became more and more of an inevitability. It wasn't until things began to seriously unhinge that the press turned a more critical eye on the Pentagon's conduct in both conflicts.
And he is right about the Spanish-American War. That war too had it's "smoking gun will be a mushroom cloud" in the accidental explosion of the USS Maine, and it too freed a people under the merciless thumb of an autocratic government. A people who soon grew less grateful as they chafed under the thumb of the new occupier.
But Goldberg's larger point is that it's because of "the ego of aging baby-boomers," the "myth" of Vietnam is kept alive and is constantly being refought by liberals, who can't let go of their "glory days."
I hate to point out to young Jonah that 1968 was a full seven years before the fall of Saigon. Hell, John Kerry hadn't even gotten those purple hearts which gnaw at people like Jonah so much. But no matter.
The irony of all of this is that it isn't liberals who pine to burn a draft card or two. It's the Right that simply can't let Vietnam go. They continue to blame the press for the loss of the war, or LBJ for not giving the Pentagon a free hand to exterminate the North Vietnamese, or Nixon for being such a bleeding-heart. And they continue to promote the canard that the troops returning home from Vietnam were spat upon by hippies at the airport.
Because all of that helps feed their victimization and allows them to lift up their noses and convince themselves that only they are loyal Americans, that only they will ever be on the right side of history.
When last we checked in on him, Jonah was being smacked around by Juan Cole. So it comes as no surprise that he has had the inspired insight that Iraq is nothing like Vietnam.
In Iraq, meanwhile, it's nothing but insurgency now. But, unlike the Viet Cong, Iraq's insurgency is ideologically diverse. Some are terrorists seeking to impose a pan-Arab theocracy, some are looking to restore the secular bacchanalia of fear they enjoyed under Saddam Hussein, and others are just gangsters. Vietnam was a jungle war that started against the French in the 1950s. Iraq was a desert war that permanently toppled Saddam's regime in a month. The technologies in play are incomparable. The terrain, the political will and ideologies behind the efforts, the cultures ? almost every single point of comparison doesn't add up ? save the common bravery of America's military. Perhaps most important: Casualty rates are vastly different.
Well, except that both were entered into on the basis of false intelligence in response to an unlikely threat, and support for both was ginned up by claiming that it's all about bringing democracy to a benighted people -- at the point of a gun. But let's put those comparisons aside, okay?
And Lucianne's spawn does have a point when he writes
Of course, there are some similarities between Iraq and Vietnam ? including the press' attitude toward both. But such similarities are inherent to all wars and national struggles in a republic such as ours. The Spanish-American War, for instance, would probably be a far more fruitful point of comparison for critics of the Bush administration, but that would require they read up on it first.
Indeed, the D.C. cocktail party circuit pundits did support the war in Vietnam initially because they knew that the press and Washington establishment knew what was best, as did their successors in 2001 and 2002. Both now as then, the press were complicit in cheerleading as war became more and more of an inevitability. It wasn't until things began to seriously unhinge that the press turned a more critical eye on the Pentagon's conduct in both conflicts.
And he is right about the Spanish-American War. That war too had it's "smoking gun will be a mushroom cloud" in the accidental explosion of the USS Maine, and it too freed a people under the merciless thumb of an autocratic government. A people who soon grew less grateful as they chafed under the thumb of the new occupier.
But Goldberg's larger point is that it's because of "the ego of aging baby-boomers," the "myth" of Vietnam is kept alive and is constantly being refought by liberals, who can't let go of their "glory days."
There's an enduring myth that Vietnam was a singular evil undone by America's idealistic youth, holding hands and singing songs in one voice for peace. This reflects the ego of baby-boomer liberals more than the facts. Not only did large numbers of young people support the war, but in the annals of unpopular wars, it wasn't that special. In 1968, Sol Tax of the University of Chicago cataloged anti-war activity from the Revolutionary War until the beginning of peace negotiations and found that Vietnam ranked as either the fourth or seventh least-popular war in American history.
I hate to point out to young Jonah that 1968 was a full seven years before the fall of Saigon. Hell, John Kerry hadn't even gotten those purple hearts which gnaw at people like Jonah so much. But no matter.
The irony of all of this is that it isn't liberals who pine to burn a draft card or two. It's the Right that simply can't let Vietnam go. They continue to blame the press for the loss of the war, or LBJ for not giving the Pentagon a free hand to exterminate the North Vietnamese, or Nixon for being such a bleeding-heart. And they continue to promote the canard that the troops returning home from Vietnam were spat upon by hippies at the airport.
Because all of that helps feed their victimization and allows them to lift up their noses and convince themselves that only they are loyal Americans, that only they will ever be on the right side of history.
7 Comments:
Jonah reminds one of the post-WW1 Germans who believed that they hadn't lost the war, but we're stabbed in the back by Jews and Bolsheviks. That this bore no resemblance to reality didn't bother the German Right then, and the truth doesn't trouble our Right today. Media-created myths, such as the myth of two Vietnams (North and South)when in fact there was always only one Vietnam trying to kick imperialists out of its borders. The media, of course, supports all wars, particularly when they are going well. Wars sell media. Hearst knew that when he helped heat up the atmosphere prior to the Spanish American War. And CNN, Fox and other "news" outlets ratings go through the roof in wartime. Peace doesn't sell media, unless there's sex involved.
While Sadam was no liberal democrat, he was really our creature, except that both he and we forgot who created him. For the young men who are dying in Iraq, the similarities to Vietnam are all too obvious. American kids are dying for no good reason.
What a lot of liberal BS. We let the South Vietnamese down and that is why they lost confidence and crumbled after we withdrew our ground forces and Massive Air Support.
The Iraqis have much more fighting spirit and are not encountering anything like the huge amount of equipment and men like the NVA confronted the ARVN with.
You can not appreciate the true forces and actions of history if you were not there. I spent a voluntary tour in Vietnam 1968-1969. I also served as a senior advisor to the Imperial Iranian Ground Force (The Army). Middle Easterners are not the same as Asians and all Asians are not the same either. Iraq has been a nation a very long time compared to South Vietnam. The Iraqi public is much more educated and sophisticated than the South Vietnamese were. I could go on but doubt that Jonah has a point of reference based on reality which would enable him to rationally consider the true nature of the two wars and their lack of similarity. The casualty rate alone is drastically different.
I keep on wondering why everyone seems to miss the point that Indochina (Vietnam) began asking for emergency aid from the United States as early as the 1930's. Ho Chi Minh got the United States to lend him $$ and arms to fight the Japanese. In 1952, he sought more aid to kick the French out and the United States turned him down, stating tha France was an Allie.
With that Uncle Ho went where the $$ was, ie., the Soviet Union and got the aid he needed. The price Uncle Ho had to pay, was to support the Soviets and Communism, which he did gladly. He would have embraced the USA belief structure if we had given him further aid.
And as they say THE REST IS HISTORY.
IT IS TIME THAT POPLE
SHOULD REIZE THATALL WARS HAVE BEN FOUGHT FOR
ECONOMIC REASONS NOT IDLOGICAL ONES NO ATTER WHAT THE VARIOUS MEDIA OUTLETS SAY. THIS TAKES A BIT OF RESEARCH ON THE
PART OF THOSE WANTING TO
KNOW WHY.TO CONTINUE TO
COMPARE TWO FOUGHT IN
DIFFERENT LANDS WITH
DIFFERENT CULTURES IS
IN FUTILITY
As an Amertican engineer who spent 18 months working with the Vietnamese in 1961 and 1962 I felt the U.S. could not win a geurilla war under the conditions there.The American press completely misreported the situation in their addiction to reporting the "real story".The adolescent self dramatists,draft dodgers and elites did the rest.
As an Amertican engineer who spent 18 months working with the Vietnamese in 1961 and 1962 I felt the U.S. could not win a geurilla war under the conditions there.The American press completely misreported the situation in their addiction to reporting the "real story".The adolescent self dramatists,draft dodgers and elites did the rest.
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